Unit“if we were truly healthy, we’d have no need for art of any kind”
Unit>January 1997<
Contact Zone
Povertech Industries
1008 10th St. #761
Sacramento, CA 95814 USA
Povertech @emrl.com
http://emrl.com/povertech
Throughout the years California has gained
world wide rep as one of the most productive matrixes for experimental artists, in a wide
spectrum of styles and philosophies. Within the medium of ‘new abstract sound’
CRAWL UNIT is undoubtedly one of thé revelations of the last couple of years. It is the
solo project of 24-year old Sacramento native Joe Colley, who also heads his own noise
oriented record label Povertech. Colley has an innate fascination for low-grade
communications technology, and turns to ‘consumer electronics’ rather than
sophisticated digital equipment to create a cerebral form of music; powerful, organic
sound tapestries that are both challenging and intelligent.
He’s succesfully collaborated with bands like Small Cruel Party and AMK, performed
with a.o. Daniel Menche, Merzbow, Killer Bug and Hijokaidan, and toured the States with
Scot Jenerik in October of 1996. The following interview was done via fax.
“My interest in experimenting with sound came about because of the availability of
cheap equipment in my environment, natural curiosity, and some spare time. I’ve
worked with sound for about 5-6 years now.”
“After a fertile period of messing with tape decks, reel machines, making loops,
playing multiple tapes simultaneously, etc. I started to find out about people working
with similar stuff. Some friends played me Kraftwerk, which they used to test out their
car stereo. I also eventually got into Einstürzende Neubauten, Throbbing Gristle, etc.
and I started just buying the strangest stuff I could find. I slowly got a bunch of Lps on
Nonesuch for usually a dollar each (or less). I remember clearly listening to Xenakis
“electro-acoustic music’ and being amazed. I still am.”
Tell me, which ambitions did you have when you founded Crawl Unit?
Joe: “I had virtually no ambitions for the project at first. Later I enjoyed the
thought of creating some artifact containing this strange sound that would somehow fall
into someone’s life and confuse them. I often left tapes around in bathrooms and
public places. I was idealistic.”
After a series of tapes, you released your first CD “Aftermusic” in 1994. Some
of the material featured had already been released one way or the other. Why did you opt
to re-release this older material rather than exclusively new material and how do you now
look back on this CD?
Joe: “Actually, there first was a 30 minute cassette, then the “1993”
10” LP, the “Remains” 7” ep, and then the “Aftermusic” CD.
It seems now that the 7” has held up best because it was an attempt to clear out a
few pieces I liked before beginning again, so I didn’t overthink it. The CD has
it’s functions. Anyone’s first CD is almost assuredly vague. The tracks that are
re-released were put on CD because I thought they should be heard in a better way. I
don’t regret it much, I just feel that it’s a sketch for things I really want to
work on.”
On the CD’s inlay you printed a quote by “Joachim Ernst”. Could you tell us
what the text is about and how you link it to your music? By the way,... who is/was J.
Ernst?
Joe: “This text came from a new-age book on sound, healing, etc.. I think the quote
is a realistic view of “noise” or sound-art as manifestation of neuroses. I
still have no information about Joachim Ernst Berendt. Sorry.”
In your opinion, is a purely mechanistic approach of music in a creative process at all
possible? In other words, is it possible to keep the composer’s ego (and consequently
also the composer’s emotions) out of the entire composition process?
Joe: “I would say it’s nearly impossible to create “music” and leave
one’s ego out of it. It’s been said regarding Cage’s use of chance in
composition that he still chose which questions to ask. Cage probably came about as close
as one could to staying out of the process personally, but the result is a body of work
that is extremely dull to listen to. It’s much more enjoyable to talk about his
pieces than listen to them.”
Yet, in an interview with Dead Eyes Magazine you also mentioned, “I’m trying to
create something removed from my personality, so that it ends up sounding alien to
me....”
Joe: “I find it valuable and interesting to set up a situation where accidents can
happen freely, or where random events interact. Thus a work of ‘art’ can be seen
as a microcosm of our reality, confusing as it often is. So, an attempt to create
something alien or unfamiliar to me is an attempt to allow life to flow freely, and also
an attempt to surprise myself and push the ego to the back of my mind. It never completely
succeeds, of course. I’m only human.”
Is computer music something you find hard to appreciate? I’m just asking because you
never seem to use midi nor sequencers yourself, at least not according to the liner notes.
Joe: “Computer music falls into a similar trap as the “mechanistic
approach” in your previous question. Computer assisted composers often find it so
amazing that the technology is doing so much that they forget to listen. They expect a
piece to be intellectually interesting because of its arrangement even though the PA is
blaring super-fake synthesized trombone sounds. I see it as a novelty, sometimes it can be
educational. My choice in not using midi or sequencing is mostly because I’ve been
able to complete the things I want without it. I don’t rule out use of anything, I
just don’t have an affinity for some equipment.”
On “Aftermusic” there’s also a track called “Precedence”, which
uses covert audience recordings of illustrous bands such as Illusion of Safety, Kapotte
Muziek and a few others. How did you get the idea for this approach? Also, what are your
ideas on sampling, copyright, etc...?
Joe: “The idea behind “Precedence” was for a live performer to use bootlegs
of previous performers on a given evening. This was actually demonstrated once. The studio
version on "Aftermusic" was conceived with a kind of world audience in mind, to
use bootlegs of groups who often use found sound in their own work. It's an attempt to
call attention to the idea that everything is being recorded, manipulated and churned out
later. Nothing new."
"Copyright is a complex issue that only really matters when big amounts of money are
involved. It's not really a subject that interests me too much. I don't want to spend my
life on a copyright awareness crusade (like Negativland)."
What's the working process like when you're creating a track?
Joe: "Every piece is different. Usually I work on a foundation, then add layers that
relate. Sometimes it's thought out in advance, sometimes not. Once sketched out it becomes
clear what needs to happen within the time frame.'
Which criteria do you go by to judge when a piece of music is finished and ready for
release? In the earliest days, when there were still two Crawl Unit members, wasn't it
easier then to come to this decision?
Joe: "These days I'm much more critical with what is released. The only criteria is
that a piece must be completely what it is supposed to be, even if it is only a fragment.
Sometimes just a sketch or demonstration is enough."
"Working with someone else quickly irritated me. You either become bossy or you get
satisfied with inferiority. With two people more crap would have been released just
because I would get tired of discussing it."
In an interview you did some time ago for a French zine you mentioned that you also have a
great interest in the effect of music on the human body. Could you perhaps go a bit more
into detail on this subject?
Joe: "I think anyone you'd find working with sound would have an interest in this.
Unfortunately I've never been convinced of any controllable effect of any value that can
be created by a piece of "music". It manifests itself in my work as intentions
that I have for a given piece, the result is up to the listener, and effects change."
Allow me to quote again from the interview in Dead Eyes magazine, where you said that
"if we were truly healthy, we'd have no need for art of any kind". What did you
mean by that?
Joe: "I'm referring here to my opinion that most art is simply a manifestation of an
individual's neuroses, whatever they may be. So, following this, a healthy civilisation
would not look at or take an interest in 'art'. It would instead value creative work that
was purely functional. Of course, this is an impossibility. I think it's important to find
out what we can about ourselves through what we create."
Some time ago, someone told me he found it hard to appreciate noise based music, because
he could not identify what he heard. Do you agree that in order to truly enjoy noise
music, the listener first needs to develop a new sense of auditory perception?
Joe: "Well, enjoyment isn't necessarily the same for everyone. Some people might like
sound that causes them pain or confusion. It's important for me at this stage to try to
obscure the source of a sound so that images don't get in the way of my intent. As one
gets accustomed to listening critically this gets harder and harder, and now it's hard for
me to appreciate things that are obviously made with a shortwave radio and delay pedal for
example, but there's a lot more out there."
I'm sure that over the years you've developed certain technical skills, but don't you
sometimes feel a beginner again, who has to start at point 1 over and over again with
every new composition?
Joe: "I try to continuously set up the equipment and situation in a way that leaves
me a bit confused. The results are much better than being familiar with everything."
Do you sometimes get advice from fellow noisists, or exchange ideas with them?
Joe: "I don't discuss actual composition much, but I get and give criticism
often."
Just how important is criticism on your work to you? Is it something you reckon with for
your later compositions?
Joe: "I prefer to get or give criticism vaguely, not discussing details but rather
moods, connotations, certain sounds or juxtapositions effect on me as a listener. When
composing I try to keep to the task at hand, not thinking too much. Later I listen more
critically, but by the time I get any criticism, the work is usually released, so it's too
late to change anything anyway (if I wanted to)."
How do you think about collaborations? If I remember correctly you've already entered
collaborations with a.o. Francisco Lopez, Pleasure Center, ... What - in your opinion -
makes collaborative work wortwhile and what are your personal experiences in this respect?
Joe: "Collaboration is something I am very very particular about at this point. Often
it's a starting point for a learning process, but I've realized that it's rarely much
different than working alone. It's traditional in the modern "experimental
network" to send sounds to someone to get reworked and I did it a few times, but now
my focus is more on sharpening my own ideas. Collaboration can be productive if those
involved have similar goals. I've done some things with Small Cruel Party, RLW, MSBR
so...."
In 1995 Manifold/Povertech released your 2nd CD "Vs. Silence". I've seen this CD
being compared to the works of Köner, Lustmord and Arcane Device. Can you recognize
yourself in this comparison?
Joe: "When the material for "Vs. Silence" was recorded I hadn't heard any
of the artists mentioned (except some early noisier Lustmord), but now I can see some
common ground."
"Vs. Silence" was conceived as a part of an installation. Could you talk some
about that?
Joe: "Well, the CD was made from recordings of sound performed live in a continuous
mix over a period of a few days. This happened in one room in a building full of gallery
spaces, so the audience never heard more than a few moments at a time."
Would you say "Vs. Silence" is the most conceptual recording you've done sofar?
Joe: "This is true. The material has been reduced so far over such a long period of
time it makes me tired to think of it. It's ironic to think that it ended up as something
I can't really listen to now. It's function is to fill a space in any environment, but
I've used it up by listening to it too often. The important part is what's happening in
the listening environment, the spaces between the sound."
Silence is as important as sound isn't it? Take for instance the mysterious 13th track on
"Aftermusic", (... unless that one was only a joke), but especially "Vs.
Silence" I think is a soundpainting in genuine "clair-obscure" style. Also
a Cage-ian influence?
Joe: "Yes, the "hidden" track on "Aftermusic" was a joke about
Cage's 4:33. I encourage everyone to do a version. Silence is very important. That's one
of the pitfalls of extreme noise, it has an effect only when compared to silence."
Given the extremely subtle character of "Vs. Silence", do you think you would be
able to translate these recordings into a captivating live set?
Joe: "Vs. Silence" was only conceived as a recording. It could work if played
back in public, but that isn't really a "performance". It's not something I
would do live."
Speaking of performances; some time ago you toured the States together with a.o. Scot
Jenerik. Could you tell us something about your experiences?
Joe: "The U.S.A. tour of October 1996 with Scot Jenerik was grueling, exciting and
enlightening. It's not something I would consider doing again soon. We played 25 shows
coast to coast, from California to Texas, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York. We met all kinds
of people, saw crazy things. We both recorded almost all performances, so this material
might come out sometime. It was fascinating to experiment with my material in the live
framework, I ended up with different versions of every idea."
If I'm not mistaken you also performed in Europe a couple of years ago?....
Joe: "No, I never actually performed in Europe, except for a live radio broadcast
with Francisco Lopez in Spain. I was busy enough meeting alot of friends I'd known through
the mail like Stefan of Maeror Tri/Drone Records, the guys from Hideg Roncs, going to
Staalplaat in Amsterdam, etc."
Are live performances something you enjoy doing, or is it more of a necessary evil to you?
Joe: "I've started turning down shows lately because I just don't feel it works well
enough live. I end up standing at a table, it might as well be on tape. My opinion could
change, but I'm more interested in recording right now."
Your newest CD is entitled "Proprietary Acoustics" and was released through RRR
in the Pure series. As I haven't heard those recordings yet, could you perhaps tell me
something about it?
Joe: "This CD is a document of sloppy and raw live recordings. The tracks are taken
from different situations and demonstrate different equipment and strategies. It's like a
rougher version of the same ideas I was working with on "Aftermusic". Parts of
it are pretty abrasive, but still nowhere near extreme noise. It's a curiousity."
Crawl Unit has appeared on various compilations. How do you feel about contributions in
general?
Joe: "I regret a lot of the tracks I've done for comps. Many are just bad
experiments. The stuff I worked hardest on was never really heard by many people. I am
proud of my tracks on the "Interference" CD/book from 23 5, "Parasit"
from Ant-Zen, one on an upcoming CD from Noise Taiwan, and a piece I did using sounds from
Ralf Wehowsky for a collection of reinterpretations. Compilations can be a great way to
hear different artists, but like collaboration the chemistry must be right."
Tapes. Any plans to re-issue some of the older material on CD? The "Terminal
Absolution" tape on G.R.O.S.S. perhaps?
Joe: "None of the tapes really stand up very well in my opinion, I'd rather focus on
new material. The G.R.O.S.S. tape should remain as it was, an artifact."
What's Povertech Industries' current status?
Joe: "Povertech is my own label. So far I've released 7" vinyl from Francisco
Lopez, Hafler Trio, CM Von Hauswolff, MNortham, Hands To, RLW, etc. and my own CDs, tapes
and vinyl. Right now I've started working with Eric Lunde on a CD retrospective of his
work."
Finally, what projects do you have planned?
Joe: "I'm finishing a set of strong abstract pieces which might end up as a CD on
Manifold or my own label. I just finished 2 pieces for a Drone Records 7" and 2 using
source material by MSBR for a collaborative CD with Daniel Menche and myself for
Isomorphic Records. Other than that I've been working on future Povertech releases, eating
well, sleeping alot. X
SELECTED DISCOGRAPHY
C-30 "Vol. One" Povertech
10" LP "1993" Povertech ( ltd. to 300)
7" EP "Remains" Povertech (ltd. to 300 + reissue)
CD "Aftermusic" Povertech
CD "Vs. Silence" Povertech/Manifold (split release in 2 types
of packaging)
CD "Propietary Acoustics" RRR + edition of
100 in special package (Povertech)
C-46 "Terminal Absolution" G.RO.S.S.
C-60 "Soundstain" Chocolate Monk
C-60 "C.U./P.C./C.U./H.H." Realization
COMPILATION TRACKS
"Loss of life" on "Parasit", LP, Ant-Zen
"A thing of beauty rising, Phoenix-like" on "Accelerating World", CD,
PAL
"Break the sound" + interview on "Interference", CD/book, 23five
"Density Test" on "Japanese/American Noise Treaty", Relapse
FORTHCOMING
7", Drone Records
"Vortices" for electro-acoustic comp CD, Cohort, USA
"Catch as Catch Can't" for comp CD, Noise, Taiwan
"Malfunction for Orchestra", 7", Ant-Zen, Germany
"Cruel Summer" + "Re Ascent (An Exploded View) for MSBR CD, Isomorphic, USA
Tape for Banned Productions, USA
Piece for "Regeneration/Decay", comp CD, Cynistrose, France
"Sirensong/Departing" on 33/45LP, Genderless Kibbutz, USA